Aminet 25/Aminet 25 (1998)(GTI - Schatztruhe)[!][Jun 1998].iso/Aminet/gfx/3d/IIB10.lha/IIB/Threads/Updated_State

Internet Message Format | 1998-02-16 | 9.3 KB

Date:         Tue, 25 Nov 1997 19:13:51 -0500
From: Roy Baker <[e-mail]>
Subject:      [IML] IFW: Re: Updated States but...

Jon Rubin wrote;

<<I created an object with a default and two other states. I selected only
the Shape Data Type and everything worked fine.>>
(snip)
<<So I went back and using the States Info
command I added the Object Properties Data Type to all the states. Then I
changed the color and filter values on one of the states and Updated that
state. Unfortunately, this caused ALL of the states to changes their color
and filtration values.>>
(snip)
<<So my question is: Is it possible to use the Object Properties Data Type to
morph the base color and filter values of an object or is there some
limitation to morphing these properties that is escaping me?>>

Jon,

There seems to be a problem when using states and selecting "object
properties" (I'm assuming that you are using Imagine for Windows ver 1.3.4).
I ran into a similar problem to what you describe just the other day. At
other times, this problem has manifested itself by re-setting specular
'overdrive' full-up to 10 when you change from one state to another. I've
also seen it kill all specular hilights completely, resulting in a very
'flat' looking object.

In my particular case, I solved the problem by using the ABAttrib texture,
UN-checking "object properties", and CHECKING "textures/brushes" in the
states info dialog box. Then you use the ABAttrib texture to set your desired
color/filter/specular etc. values, and updating that state. Do the same for
any other states (using ABAttrib to set different color/filter/spec values),
and updating. This has worked well for me at least. I shot almost an entire
day in the butt trying to figure out what was going on with the "object
properties" check box and different states. My final solution is this; if
you're using states, don't check the "object properties" box at all. You'll
save yourself a lot of hassle if you can find another way to achieve the
effect you want. Let me know if this helps, or if I'm just mis-understanding
your problem. (In my particular instance, I was making a 3D button for a
large kiosk project, and when you click on the button, it changes shape, and
also changes color and brightness). Made me real glad that the AB Textures
are around!

---------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 26 Nov 1997 09:55:37 -0000
From: Richard Foster <[e-mail]>

States...

Shape data type: stores the shape of the object including the size of it
when you scale an object.
Grouping data type: stores the relationship of the child objects in a group
to the parent, including position and alignment.
Face Colors data type: stores the base colour, reflect and transparency of
SELECTED faces using the Face Colors command in the Functions menu. This is
a fragile command in that if you alter the base attributes of the object
after defining the Face Colors, States will not give you what you thought.
Object Props. data type: Stores information about all the other attributes
excluding that covered by Face Colors and Textures/Maps. There are some
minor problems with this including inability to store overdrive settings.
Textures/Maps data type: Stores information on the applied textures/maps in
as much as you can vary any of the parameters between two states.

With Mike's permission I may release this section of the manual so's you
can see what the rest will be like.

---------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 28 Nov 1997 00:13:48 -0500
From: Roy Baker <[e-mail]>

Richard,

In your post dated Nov 26, you wrote ...
<snip>
<<Object Props. data type: Stores information about all the other attributes
excluding that covered by Face Colors and Textures/Maps. There are some
minor problems with this including inability to store overdrive settings.>>

I'm glad you brought this up. I've been confused about just what the "Object
Properties" check-box was supposed to address. After reading your post (I've
omitted all except the portion about Object Properties), I got the impression
that what this function is 'supposed' to do is 'remember' things like base
color, specularity settings, etc. (i.e.; 'Attributes'), for use with
different states. Most of the time, using this option has caused me a lot of
grief by 'remembering' that specular overdrive is always set full-up to 10.
Since I'm still a little new to Imagine (started off using version 1.3.4,
just a few months ago), I thought that perhaps I should conduct a few simple
tests to see just what 'Object Properties' really does do. This is what I
found out...

Indeed it is _supposed_ to remember all the basic attributes of an object. In
fact it DOES remember them ... but something is fouled up, because while it
remembers the values that you enter into the requestor, it 'forgets' to
actually re-apply many of them to the object when you render. Again, if you
check the info in the requestor by switching between various states that have
been set-up, it appears that all the attributes have been saved and recalled
correctly (except specular overdrive). But actually rendering an object
reveals that many of the object's attributes have not been re-applied
correctly. Specifically, the attributes which are NOT re-applied correctly
are;

Base Color, Specular Color, Hardness, Reflectivity, and Filter Color.

And the attributes that ARE re-applied correctly are;

Roughness, Brightness, Fog, and Light settings.

If I understand correctly, this problem has only manifested itself since the
introduction of 'Specular Overdrive', and so only occurs in IFW 1.3.4 ... I
also think this will be fixed in the next CUP. But I wanted to tell you
"Thanks" for bringing this up, and stimulating my little experiment. Now that
I've figured out just what is supposed to be included in 'Object Properties',
and just what does and doesn't work correctly, it'll save me some time and
effort in the future. (And again, I'll say that my work-around has been to
use the ABAttrib Texture to set all the basic object attributes, don't check
the 'Object Properties' box when working with states, and just use the
'Textures / Brushes' option instead. While the ABAttrib texture doesn't offer
Specular Overdrive, or as many options for Fog Objects, it works great for
things like Base Color, Specular, Hardness, Reflectivity, and Filter values).
Again, thanx very much for your input on what has been a very perplexing
problem for me, on a few certain occasions.

---------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 28 Nov 1997 19:07:03 -0800
From: Clae & Deborah Tanett <[e-mail]>

-----Original Message-----
From: Roy Baker <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Thursday, November 27, 1997 9:59 PM
Subject: [IML] IFW: Re: Updated States but...


>Richard,
>
>In your post dated Nov 26, you wrote ...
> <snip>
> <<Object Props. data type: Stores information about all the other
> attributes excluding that covered by Face Colors and Textures/Maps. There
> are some minor problems with this including inability to store overdrive
> settings.>>

>
>I'm glad you brought this up. I've been confused about just what the
>"Object Properties" check-box was supposed to address

> I got the impression that what this function is 'supposed' to do is
>'remember' things like base color...

Hi
Clae here

>excluding that covered by Face Colors

The Face Color option in the States requester is used for that. (I use
procedurals textures mainly for this; hue & huevary for changing face
coloring) BTW I use IFA 5.0 and those are Essence textures by the now bye
bye Apex Software Inc. :)

> specularity settings, etc. (i.e.; 'Attributes'),

I would like to know; does IFW have an Imagine specular procedural texture
(specular.itx). I never use the attributes's setting (nor hardness) because
I can get better control of the specular/hardness with the .itx. I can set
different subgroups's faces with the .itx where as I can't with the
Attributes (I work with a lot of solid models). Plus it's easier to use the
States Textures/Brushes for morphing between States.

> Most of the time, using this option has caused me a lot of
>grief by 'remembering' that specular overdrive is always set full-up to 10.

What is specular overdrive?

>...caused me a lot of grief...

I hear this a lot from those trying to use it. :)


>Since I'm still a little new to Imagine... I thought that perhaps I should
>conduct a few simple tests to see just what 'Object Properties' really
>does do. This is what I found out...
>
> Specifically, the attributes which are NOT re-applied correctly are;...
>
>Base Color...

Again States' Face Color (IFA anyway) is used for this...

> Specular Color, Hardness, Reflectivity, and Filter Color.

For IFA users Specular & Hardness work fine but Reflectivity, and Filter
Color don't.

>
>And the attributes that ARE re-applied correctly are;
>
>Roughness, Brightness, Fog, and Light settings.

All these work in IFA also...

>
>If I understand correctly, this problem has only manifested itself since
>the introduction of 'Specular Overdrive'

That's why I want to know what this 'Beast' is. :)

>(And again, I'll say that my work-around has been to
>use the ABAttrib Texture to set all the basic object attributes, don't
>check the 'Object Properties' box when working with states, and just use
> the 'Textures / Brushes' option instead.

Interesting, IFA doesn't have such a one attribute texture but it does have
texture work arounds too.